>> we'll hear more from the pentagon in a briefing moments from now. as foley's parents reveal new details today on the threatening e-mail from their son's captors just days before his murder. >> i do not realize how brutal they were and i actually hope we didn't engage in negotiations with them. >> not backing down, missouri governor jay nixon pulls the national guard troops out of ferguson and he stands up to pressure to assign a special prosecutor in the death of michael brown. >> we have a local elected prosecutor who, no, i'm not going to take him off the case. he said he's going to -- >> you're saying that now. you are not going to appoint a special prosecutor? >> right. no. i'm not. good day, i'm chris matthews

in washington in today for andrea mitchell. ? just a few moments, the pentagon press secretary is expected to build upon the uncensored comments on isis we've heard this week from the president, the secretary of defense and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff prompting new questions across the country about how far this administration will go to deal with the growing threat. colonel jack jacobs is an m nbc military analyst and richard edge is along the turkey/syria border right now. let me go to colonel jacobs and this question. how do we square this circumstance? we're basically using air power in a limited campaign, although it's continuing, against isis. at the same time, we're hearing talk from the secretary of state, john kerry, that we're going to crush them. which is it? an all out war or a limited war? >> limited war. there's no way that the american public is going to stand for a reintroduction of troops into the region.

they've said it many times. indeed, there's some indication the american pub slick not particularly interested in launching air strikes. just wants it to go away. it's not going be that. we'll probably wind up launching air strikes if we have the intelligence to launch them. >> how about going into syria? air strikes in syria? is that in the picture right now? >> i think it is. that was telegraphed from the defense department. i think all things are on the table. if we knew where they were, we would probably bomb them right now and announce it after the fact. i don't think we're going to telegraph it, though, and i don't think we have the intelligence on the ground yet to determine exactly where they are. but when we do we will probably bomb them. >> who could be our allies in the fight against isis. the kurds, of course, are great fighters, they've made a fight already. what about the shi'a-led government in baghdad? is there a possibility we will see a united front against isis or is that just a dream?

>> i think on the baghdad side we already have allies. we have the iraqi army which has proven to be very ineffective. no political leadership, really, coming from baghdad. the prime minister has not been able to put together a government so we're really seeing paralysis in baghdad. so most of the attention on the iraqi side is focused on the kurdish peshmerga fighters. the question is what about the larger conflict? what about for the syria campaign that jack jacobs was just talking about if the u.s. does decide to carry out some sort of operations, air strikes into syria, who are our allies then? that's when we have tough choices. are we going to be allied with bashar al assad? we could need some sort of at leasting a -- acquiescence from bashar al assad's forces or he'll try to shoot down american

aircraft. so we will have it is a a it is a sill deal with bashar al assad to allow an air campaign over syria? also, hezbollah and iran who are both allied with bashar al assad both fighting against isis and what's now called the islamic state in syria. do we make tacit agreements with those groups as will? so if you're going to start expanding this campaign be into syria, you'll have to make tough choices about who your allies will be. >> of course, we united with the ussr to fight the nazis so it seems historically possible. let me go to you, jack jacobs. once evidence, certainly united states in recent history, contemporary history we've all shared is that once you leave a country those who remain behind call the shots. we're out of iraq now, we haven't gone into syria at all really. so how does isis get threatened by us if they know we're containing them now, attempting to contain them now and have no

long-term plan to take them down before we pull out again in the air strikes? how do you chase the future if you're not part of it? >> well, you can't, actually. and, as a matter of fact, i hate to go back to what joe biden said before the war started, that maybe the best thing to do is to encourage iraq to go to pieces, to devolve into its component pieces and that appears to be what it's doing by itself now. i don't think you can use the cliche "put the genie back in the bottle." i don't think you can affect it strategically, only tactically. >> can we live with a caliphate in portions of syria and iraq when it does come apart? >> no, i don't think we can and that's why we're going to continue to target when we can target individual groups of enemies of the united states and of our allies in the region. it's going to be pretty much a tactical war for many, many years to come unless and until we're willing to actually put troops on the ground as part of

a multinational force to make sure that everything gets quiet. but we're not going to do that. we don't have the political will to do that. by the way, neither do our allies have the political will to do that, either in the region or in europe who are also threatened by all this. you don't see them stepping up to the plate, either, and we're not doing it without them. >> back to you, richard. we've always wondered now until we had james foley beheaded on television, basically, that's got our blood boiling, mine included, of course, like all americans, our blood is boiling over this. but the sunni people in iraq especially, have they chosen sides between isis and the iraqi government yet? >> well, i think with each passing day the differences and tensions between sunnis and shiites in iraq are becoming more and more pronounced. you're seeing more and more

extremist tendencies among the sunnis. look at what happened today in diyala province. you had a shiite militia, which everyone knows the shiite militias are backed by the government. a group of shiite militia fighters went to a sunni mosque, they levelled submachine guns and they kill 50d to 70 people. they injured -- who were then taken from the mosque, they were brought to the hospital, the shiite militia -- again, which is backed by the government -- chased them down, was standing in front of the hospital demanding to be let in so that they could finish them off. when things like this happen -- and they happen a lot in iraq -- you see extremism growing. so you see more and more people of the sunni side saying "we better get with isis, nobody sells going to defend us. these shiite militias are out to kill us." then you see the shiite saying "well, if we don't have the backing of our militias, isis going slaughter us." so it's forcing people take

sides. and the choices on either side are not very good. >> worst-case scenario it sounds like. thank you so much, jack jacobs, thank you nbc's richard engel in the field. today jim foley's parents appeared here on msnbc describing how passionate their late son was about how he felt for people in need. >> jim wanted to be there because he -- he really embraced the suffering of the syrian people. we need to embrace one another's suffering so that this can be the world with some love and some compassion. >> well, you can contact with that family. nbcnews.com writer cassandra detailed the back and forth between the family we just met there. the global post, which jim worked for and isis militants during jim foley's time as hostage. she joins us now. give us a sense of how this back and forth worked from the time

he was captured. >> there really was no back and forth for a very long time after he was captured. he was taken on thanksgiving day in 2012 and there was no contact whatever with whoever was holding james foley until a year later. and that came in the form of an anonymous untraceable e-mail sent to his family and the ceo of global post, the organization he was working for. >> what was the next round? >> well, the e-mail was the first contact, but it needed to be vetted. there needed to be proof that whoever was sending the e-mail had access to james or had james in their hands. so the e-mail was seen as a good sign so as forensic experts and linguistics experts looked at the e-mail and tried to figure out who was sending it, the family asked for proof of life to know they had james with them. so there were a few e-mails exchanged, proof of life was determined and it was because whoever was sending the e-mail was able to answer very, very

detailed and specific questions via james that gave the phamedly satisfaction that james was with them. but those e-mails stopped after just a few weeks. >> so what is your sense, having reported this, the demand for 100 million euros, which is over $130 million, was that what broke the deal or what caused his death, the attacks by the united states on isis from the air? >> i think the first e-mail had a number, that 100 million euros and that was seen as just a ludicrous, ludicrous figure. recent ransoms have involved $2 million to $4 million. so when that number was put forward, it became clear there was no interest or getting a number down to ransom out james foley. >> then what do you -- we have to assume it was the attack on isis from the air by u.s. forces in the recent weeks that was their reason for executing him

the way they did. but they had put out the word it was because we failed to negotiate with them. is that just -- i hate to use the word spin but -- >> there were no negotiations? >> there were no negotiations. >> i've heard it from several people. there was no negotiating going back and forth. >> is it your sense that that 1 million euro de -- hundred million euro demand was seen as absurd on both sides? >> it was seen as absurd on all sides, from people close to the case, from the global post ceo said to me as well, you know, it was just a ludicrous number and it showed that there was no interest in putting forward anything to work with. >> thank you so much, great reporting. >> after that 100 million was thrown out, there was no more negotiation, no more numbers, nothing. >> thank you so much cassandra vinograd, senior writer for nbcnews.com. much more ahead, including on how the white house plans to deal with isis.

kristin welker will join us live traveling with the president on martha's vineyard. plus, the latest from ferguson, missouri, with another quiet night on the streets, the focus now has turned into the grand jury investigation into the death of michael brown and who will be the prosecutor in the case. we'll be right back. once there was a girl who put her own personal style into everything. she always mixed and matched, even in her laundry room. with downy unstopables for long lasting scents and infusions for softness, her mix was like a fine fragrance for her clothes. mmmmm. (discreet) i call it scent-cessorizing. transform your clothes, with mix, match, magic. downy infusions and unstopables. wash in the wow. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters shopping online is as easy as it gets. and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. we've made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks.

buy their services directly at angieslist.com no more calling around. no more hassles. start shopping from a list of top-rated providers today. angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. visit angieslist.com today. nature valley crunchy granola bars give you energy from 1/3 of your daily whole grains, so 1/3 of this commercial is dedicated to what you could do with all that energy. energy for making new ocean friends. this is kathleen. setting up the perfect wedding day begins with arthritis pain and two pills. afternoon arrives and feeling good, but her knee pain returns... that's two more pills. the evening's event brings laughter, joy, and more pain... when jamie says... what's that like six pills today? yeah... i can take 2 aleve for all day relief. really, and... and that's it. this is kathleen... for my arthritis pain, i now choose aleve. get all day arthritis pain relief with an easy-open cap.

are people aware of what the governor said? i thought you'd have a jurisdictional hearing of this matter deciding whether to take it to court or not, indict wilson or not but you also have this federal case of whether civil rights were denied mr. brown. and my question is the way that nixon just described it, the governor, is they're simultaneous. he called them parallel. in other words from these -- this week forward there will be two investigations happening at the same time. is the community aware that that's the way it's going to work? it's not a request whether this guy gets sprung by the local

jurisdiction and possibly faces a federal investigation. he's facing them both now. >> i don't know if community members are acutely aware of the intricacies of the federal investigation and them being parallel but they can, i can tell you. they are very much aware that the federal government is here to stay. attorney general eric holder being here earlier this week, chris matthews, that was a big deal for a lot of people because a lot of people on the ground here do not have a great deal of faith in the local jurisdiction but they do have a fair amount of faith in the administration. >> i think it was -- it may bh a lesson for the president, too, and i'm not usually a critic of him. but i have to say i thought in a very positive way eric holder showed how you lead in this country. and a big part of leading is showing up. anyway, nbc's craig melvin, thank you. you don't have to editorialize, i just did. let's go to the pentagon from where press secretary rear admiral john kirby is briefing. >> as we have more details to provide on what we know, we'll

certainly to that. rita? >> reporter: does the u.s. consider this an invasion and is the u.s. taking any action, either calling any counterparts overseas either in ukraine or russia? >> it's certainly an unauthorized entry into ukraine by this convoy. and we are consulting, as i said, with international partners right now about next steps. i don't have anything additional to add at this time. and i think, again, in my opening statement, made it very, very clear that what we're expecting of russia. >> but no phone calls or anything yet between the administration? >> this is just happening today so i'm not aware of any outreach today by -- certainly by this building, and i won't speak for other agencies in the federal government. i would remind you, though, the secretary did talk to the minister just a few days ago and the minister guaranteed, was his words, that there would be no

military intervention using the pretext of humanitarian relief and, in fact, assured us that there would be no military members as a part of this humanitarian convoy. >> reporter: you said "under the guise of a humanitarian convoy." does the u.s. have evidence that there are military forces and military equipment? >> i'm not prepared to speak to specific evidence at this time. we've made our position very, very clear that they should not be doing this under the guise of humanitarian convoy, to use that as an excuse to cross the border in an unauthorized way. we have a lot more work to do here and i think we'll sort this out throughout the day. i think you'll here more from us throughout the day. joe? >> reporter: on iraq, we heard yesterday, secretary hagel and chairman dempsey talking about a long-term strategy. could you give us a sense what does it mean? are we going to face to see changes in regards to the current operation right now in

iraq? >> i think what the secretary was referring to -- and i'm pretty sure the chairman was referring to -- was that we need to have a regional approach here and an agency and international approach about this threat posed by this particular extremist group, isil, and that this was -- this would take time to develop this kind of multilateral and multinational approach to dealing with this threat. the president himself said that this wasn't going to be over in a matter of weeks. i think we're all -- we all recognize that this group didn't grow up overnight. they didn't get the capabilities that they got overnight. we've been watching this for a while and we all recognize it's going to take a while. but just as critically, joe, it's going to take a while for everybody, not just the united states military. and the secretary was clear about this yesterday. you're not going to see the answer to all isil problems

through a military lens. we're a component, we're a tool. we are conducting operations inside iraq against this group in support of iraqis and kurdish forces. but we're not going to be the only tool in the tool box that can or should be used. >> reporter: do you know, does the pentagon know what's the size of isil in iraq and in sere war? are we talking about 10,000? 20,000? do we have any number? >> it's a difficult number to get at, and believe me, we've asked ourselves that question. but it fluctuates a lot. it changes if not weekly than certainly daily. it's a constant fluctuation so it's hard to pin it down. this isn't a classic army with an order of battle that you can just take a look at a map and say "this is how many they have." clearly it's thousands. there's no question about that.

but it changes everyday. and as we've talked about, they have free flow across that border between syria and iraq which for all intense and purposes doesn't exist for them. so it's very difficult to pin it down to a given number. >> let's go back on russia for a minute and another question. is it not accurate that you now estimate there might be up to 18,000 troops near that boarder between russia and ukraine? and isn't the reality that you have seen very recently a number of additional heavy weapons, including sa-surface-to-air missile go across and can you bring us up to date on this threatening encounter the chinese military has had with the u.s. navy this week in the air? >> okay, there's a lot there, barbara. we'll start with the ukraine. i'm reticent, as i typically am, to give a hard number on russian troops arrayed along the border.

i have said for several weeks now that it's north of 10,000. i believe it is still north of 10,000. we do believe that they continue to add to their battalion tactical groups there along the border. >> reporter: is it well north of 10,000? >> i'm going stay where i've stay which had is it's north of 10,000. it does fluctuate. now, we have seen a consistent increase in the last week or so. haven't exactly seen troops moving away, they have certainly added and reinforced those troops but, again, i'm really reticent to get into numbers. it's hard for us here in the pentagon to give an exact order of battle for another military's forces when, you know, you're not there with them. so well north -- north of 10,000, i think that's fair to say. more worrisome than the number is the readiness and the

capability that exists in these battalion tactical groups. they are, as i've described before, combined arms capable. armor, artillery, infantry, air defense. they're very ready, they're very capable, they're very mobile and they continue to do nothing but just increase the tension on the other side with ukraine. just as -- and this gets to your second of three questions. just as worrisome is the continued support to the separatists which continues to this day and does include heavy weapons systems, air defense systems, artillery systems. tanks. so we're seeing -- we're seeing a lot of hardware going across that border on a routine basis. >> reporter: and russian troops? >> well, it's hard to believe -- i think it strains credulity to think this equipment is not moving across the border accompanied by russian forces. i wouldn't get into an estimate

right now. but, again, let's not get fixated on the numbers, and we tend to drill down on that. i they's more war sporrisome is capabilities, the capabilities on the troop on that side of the border and the capabilities that find their way into separatist hands and actions. that's the real problem and what needs to stop. now, you asked about china and i know you may have all seen a press report on this so let me give you a little bit of a -- i'm going to just give you an update here about it in case you want to follow. but on the 19th of august, an armed chinese fighter jet conducted a dangerous intercept of a u.s. navy p-8 poseidon aircraft, a routine aircraft on a routine mission. the intercept took place 135 miles east of hainan island in international airspace. we have registered our strong

concerns to the chinese about the unsafe and unprofessional intercept which posed a terrific the safety and the well-being of the air crew and was inconsistent with customary international law. also it undermines -- and we've made the clear -- efforts to continue developing military-to-military relations with the chinese military. so that's where we are now. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> it's difficult to say with precision but within 30 feet of the p-8. very, very close. very dangerous. >> reporter: is it correct that as they went within 30 feet they moved around the u.s. aircraft -- over, under, around it at close range? >> we believe that they made several passes, three different occasions crossed under the aircraft with one pass having

only 50 to 100 feet separation. the chinese jet also passed the nose of the p-8 at 90 degrees with its belly toward the p-8 poseidon. we believe to make a point of showing its weapons. then they flew directly under and alongside the p-8, bringing their wing tips, as i said, to within 20 feet. then conducted a roll. a roll over the p-8, passing within 45 feet. >> reporter: what do you mean a roll? >> i mean a roll. i'm not an aviator so i'm not good at talking with my hands but basically if you're a p-8, the jet rolled over like this. so pretty aggressive and very unprofessional. we've registered our concerns very strongly through official diplomatic channels with the

chinese. this behavior is not only unprofessional, it's unsafe and it's certainly not in keeping with the kind of military-to-military relations that we'd like to have with china. did that answer your question? >> reporter: do you have photos of video? >> i believe there's imagery of it, jim. we'll have to get back to you on that. i'm not sure. >> reporter: can you tell us, is the administration more seriously considering now expanding the air campaign in iraq the directly confront isil in a way that it hasn't with the goal, with the expanded mission, perhaps, of defeating them or expanding the strikes to syria? because some of the comments that administration officials have made in the past few days suggest that is maybe that's under more serious consideration than it has been in the past. and secondly, can you update us on the provision of weapons by the united states or by allied countries to the peshmerga? >> on your first question, i think secretary hagel and the chairman spoke pretty well to it yesterday.

i don't know that i can expound on it any further. we continue to assess and monitor isil activities. that's one of the reasons why we put assessment teams there in the first place, to get a good -- a situational awareness of what's going on there. as you know, we are engaged in supporting iraqi security force s and not just only but with kinetic air strikes. which we believe have had an effect. i'm not going to get ahead of planning that hasn't been done or decisions that haven't been made. we don't telegraph our punches. but i think you can rest assured that the leadership here in the pentagon understands the threat posed by this group, understands the threat posed inside iraq and we are gaining everyday a better

understanding of iraqi security force and kurdish force capability in meeting the threat inside iraq. two points i think are important to make -- and i'm not -- i'm going to make these points but i also know i'm not answering your question. i'm not going to talk about any future planning or future operations but it is important to remind everybody that these -- what we are doing in there is in support of iraq and that ultimately this is a night the iraqi security forces have got to take on. the second point is there's not going to be a purely military solution and so when the secretary and the chairman were up here talking to you yesterday, they talked about using all the elements of american power and international influence as well to deal with this. ultimately, the answer will be found in good governance. now i know that's not -- that doesn't offer anybody the immediacy that they might want to have with dealing with this threat, this very serious threat, but ultimately it's defeating the ideology through good governance.

it's removing the unstable conditions, the petri dish, through which groups like this can foster and grow and that's really where we've got to get long term. and so we are a tool in a tool box. we're going to continue to conduct the missions that we've been conducting in iraq. you've seen it more today. i think central command released another press release. we're up over 93 air strikes. but ultimately that's not going to be what solves the problem. >> reporter: when does it become a question of u.s. self-defense versus this organization that's posing a transnational threat? because, you know, the administration has said again and again that it won't hesitate to act against any organization or terrorist group that directly threatens american interest. that seems different than the iraqi -- helping them defeat it, push back isil. >> i think what you're seeing us do in iraq does both of those things. again, the secretary mentioned this yesterday that we are -- that part of the mission is supporting, advising, assisting, helping iraqi security forces in

kurdish -- and kurdish forces blunt the momentum. we believe we've succeeded in blunting that momentum. but it's also about protecting u.s. personnel and facilities, including some of the air strikes we're conducting inside iraq. i think united states military has over the last several years a pretty good track record of defending american interests and american citizens and american facilities in many places around the world from protecting them and defending phlegm terrorist threats. oh, i'm sorry, yes, there's been -- as you heard yesterday and i think i've said it before, secretary hagel has set up a task force at dod to examine options and opportunities for us to resupply kurdish forces. no decisions have come out. i have nothing to announce about that today. that said, we do continue to help the iraqi government in baghdad conduct those kinds of

resupply missions. in some cases actually flying their equipment up to the north where it needs to get and we have been encouraged by the assistance of international partners like the uk and i also want to take the opportunity today to thank albania. albania has now come forward and offered to conduct resupply missions for kurdish force which is, again, we're very grateful for. >> can you just help me understand what dempsey was saying yesterday? he did not rule out air strikes inside syria, did he? >> the secretary didn't rule anything in or out. i think he said that options -- that all options remain available. and they do. and i'm not going to speculate about where that might take us, justin. i think you can understand why we wouldn't dot that. >> reporter: on the foley operation. there was a suggestion from at least one had been of congress today that the president or that

the white house was slow to approve the rescue mission and that this may have led to not getting there on time essentially and that the hostages were then moved. do you have any indication that this operation was slowed down in any way? >> i don't have any such indication, justin. as we talked about before, attempts like this which was risky under the best of circumstances, they take time. they take time to plan. they take time to organize. and just as critically, it takes time for you become informed enough to be able to conduct that kind of an operation. intelligence is not perfect and it is often layered over time. not unlike the way you all do your jobs when you are working with sources. you build a picture over time from many different vehicles and that's the way intelligence works and this 's the way it

worked in this rescue attempt. i think chairman dempsey said it very well yesterday that there was a lot of planning and that effort went into it. and we once on sight had an indication that they had actually been at that site. when they were moved, we don't know. but to say that it was slow-footed or done in a ham-fisted manner or that it was an intel failure i think does a disservice to the immense amount of work and the courageous decision that it was to move forward to actually make the attempt. it also -- if you'll allow me just a second to editorialize, i think it says a lot about who we are not just as a military but as a country that we're willing to try to pull something like that off and a lot of bravery, a lot of skill, a lot of courage. there's going to be a lot of names and faces you'll never know of people that put their lives very much at risk to try to save the lives of others and

i think that's pretty darn commendable. >> reporter: last question, is there any update on sending this 300 u.s. security personnel to baghd baghdad? is there any specific threat to the embassy in sfwlad are these people being sent there to prepare for an evacuation? what's going on? we heard the question from the state department. when is it going to be fulfilled if at all? >> what i will tell you now that we are processing a request by the state department for some additional security force personnel, for baghdad specifically. like all requests we get for forces, we take them seriously, we explore sourcing options and force protection requirement that go along with it and any number of other factors that go into this. we're reviewing that right now. i don't have a decision to

announce on it today. and as for the need, i wouldn't get into -- i don't talk about specific intelligence matters. i won't do that today. i'm not aware of a specific threat stream that led to this request but clearly it's the request we take very seriously. >> reporter: last night missouri representatives clay and cleaver met with the secretary to talk about the 1033 program. can you tell me if the secretary is contemplating an official review of suspension of that program? >> the secretary is keeping an open mind about the program. he shares the president's concern about any blurring of lines between the military and local law enforcement. of course certainly as that concern could lead to the u.s. of military equipment. but he has not made a decision about conducting a review. he's very much about gathering information about it.

he not only met with those two representatives, he held a meeting with senior staffers the day before to ask lots of probing deep questions about this program and how it's operated but he hasn't made any decisions yet. i do want to point out that most of the -- first of all the military is not the only source of tactical gear used by law enforcement in this country. we see the pictures and think that's all military. most of the stuff you're seeing in video coming out of ferguson is not military equipment as i said before, ferguson itself got two soft-skinned humvees from this program and a generator and i think a trailer, and that's it. so a lot of this is not u.s. military equipment. point two i would make is 95% of the property that is transferred to local law enforcement through program is not tactical.

it's not weapons. it's shelving. office equipment, communications gear. furniture. i think it's important to keep this thing in perspective. and where the secretary wants to be is he wants to be -- as he looks at this program he wants to make we're striking the right balance and that the right stuff is being transferred, the that the proper accountability is in place. but he's findful that it's not a good place for the republic, for the pentagon to be holding strings and carrot and sticks to local law enforcement. there's a reason why we aren't involved in local law enforcement activities. and they wants to make sure we maintain our proper place inside this democracy. that was admiral kirby speaking for the defense department and joining us now ann guerin, diplomatic correspondent at the "washington post" and christopher dickie, a foreign editor for the daily

beast. christopher, thanks for joining us. give us a picture of what you think is on the ukraine russian border. what is the extent of these incursions? >> what's going on is it's for several weeks now russian artillery has been shelling ukraine from the russian side and sometimes from within ukraine. probably it's manned by russian soldiers, although there's haziness about that at the same time we've had this humanitarian convoy poised to go go into ukraine with the redirect examination accompanying it. the russians just decided to roll those trucks in and hundreds of them crossed the ukrainian border. they're accompanied by ukraine by the pro russian separatist rebels who set up checkpoints. and some of them have arrived in luhansk, which has been besiege bid kiev's troops for quite a while. it's a major escalation of the war but it isn't yet the kind of

invasion where you say russian troops have rolled through. it's what we at the "daily beast" have been calling a sleight of hand invasion. some of it is covert, some of it is overt. but the end result will be putin's effort to carve off eastern ukraine the way the russians carved off the region of moldova or south ossetia from georgia. >> gradual. i want to ask anne guerin about the iraq situation and what seems to be the inconsistent statements. the secretary of state john kerry says "we're going to crush isis." joint chiefs chair dempsey, marty dempsey, says we're going to go into syria. at the same time the nature of the air campaign is not that broad. it isn't that kind of an all out war. >> right, you just heard rear admiral kirby give a pretty low figure for the total number of air strikes and fewer than 20 or 25 so far.

but what the joint chiefs have stopped him saying isis cannot be defeated without going after its home base and haven in syria. he didn't expressly they the united states is going to do that but he didn't close off that door nor have numerous other officials that have been speaking over the last week. it's not something that the administration wants to do it raises all kinds of legal questions that the breadth of the from congress to go after isis. and it raises a lot of political questions, a lot of potential problems for obama. but what dempsey was setting up was -- you're not going to win, defeat this, crush this organization unless you go after its safe haven and its heart. >> it seems like that spokesman there admiral kirby is doing a good job of representing what seems to be the president's position here.

you can't crush an ideology, a point of view, a radical islamist point of view by crushing their numbers you can't kill one of this time or decimate them intentionally or take them out. he seemed to be saying you have to improve the governance coming from baghdad. that's a stretch though given the situation there. it's not going be getting better it seems. >> this is the problem the obama administration has been up against all along. it wants a different government in baghdad, eventually finally it got a different government. whether that will do the job or snot unclear. but you know the ideology of winning is very important, too and isis is dependent on that to a great extent. a lot of young men who want to join isis's ranks from abroad and within the country say we want to join the winning side you lose that ideology of winning. this isn't even an islamic thing

to a great a lot of the young men who go to the -- some of the young men who have gone to fight withsy sis, the first books they bought on amazon.com were "islam for dummies." these are not religious zell outs. in some respects these are people who move from video games to beheadings. it's a sick thought, but that's what you're seeing. if the administration comes down very hard and successfully against the installations of isis if it starts to take away its oil wells, take away its sources of funding, take away its military materiel, including a lot that was captured when mosul fell, i'm not sure that isis will have the image of the winner that it has had for the last couple of months. >> on the dark side, we have the execution of sunnis by the shiite militia coming out of

baghdad. you've got to be with your own people as bad as they are. >> for years and years now, the first bush administration and then the obama administration were inveighing to maliki, the previous shiite prime minister the open question now whether his replacement from the same party and the same background and had the same set of political skills that maliki did at the start will govern differently. clearly, he's governing with a -- on a short string. but it's very much an open question. can he even do it? can he even reign in the shiite militias? >> not to be facetious, but it looks like we're half wi through the colin powell theory of the pottery barn. it looked like we broke it but

haven't bought it. anne gearan, thank you and christopher dickie, i've been reading you forever. we'll be right back after this. i love this "candy crush" game. it's so simple. it's just like my car insurance. i saved 15% in fifteen minutes. don't live in shirlee's world, live in the modern world. where you could save money on car insurance in half the time. esurance, backed by allstate. click or call. the summer of this.mmer.

the summer that summers from here on will be compared to. where memories will be forged into the sand. and then hung on a wall for years to come. get out there, with over 50,000 hotels at $150 dollars or less. expedia. find yours. this is bill. his doubleheader day at the park starts with back pain... and a choice. take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. peanuts! peanuts! crowd cheers!

>> this is an organization that has an apocalyptic end of days vision that will have to be defeated. to your question -- can they deb defeated without addressing that part of the organization which resides in syria? the answer is no. that will will have to be addressed on on both sides on what is essentially at this minute a non-sis tent border. martin democracypsey saying have to go into syria. kristin welker from martha's vineyard, i have to get to you. is the white house upset about the right -- i guess the ideological right's criticism of the president in the golf cart

the other day? chuckling with alonzo mourning and the other fellow? >> well, of course they're pushing back against that pretty hard, chris. as you know, they always make this argument that the office of the presidency travels wi s wis obama wherever he goes. they also point out that this trip has been incredibly jam packed from a work perspective. we've seen the president address the nation three separate times while traveling here on martha's vineyard. having said that, the optics certainly open the president up to criticism because he made that very somber statement about james foley's execution and then went directly to the golf course so the white house not surprised by the criticism certainly. but they're pushing back against it pretty hard. >> usually in new york, ladies, you can read the politics of a situation by comparing the tabs. the daily news tends to be democrat but i don't know what the politics of mort zuckerman, the owner is, but the "post" is on the right.

think time they both blasted him. >> well, and what a surprise. look, by the way, chris, i'm jealous that you're on the vineyard because it's a terrific place to cover a very hard-working president. i spent time there myself -- >> look at the golf course. that fashionably weathered building behind them. >> look, every president has this exact situation when he goes on vacation. but when he goes on vacation and something inevitably blows up and you're going to have to deal with the optics and the aides would prefer if you would hunker down inside and never went out. i'm going to annoy you -- >> do you think white house people you talked with -- >> they don't get any benefit from the president playing golf. >> let me get to you first. the public has to believe that somewhere between the third and the fourth hole when he's teeing off the president is thinking how do i reck sthiel need to get rid of this terrible force of

10,000 people by using pinprick attacks? how does he reconcile the limited nature of this front with the reality on the other side. when is he thinking of how to put that together? >> i understand that. my answer this is a really hard problem. i suspect he is thinking about it all the time except maybe of the exact moment he's hitting the ball. i think it's the central -- this is the central challenge of the remaining days of his presidency and he is going to have a long time to think about what to do. i am not begrudging the guy a few holes of golf. >> crystal, let's get the sense. i always ask that question for reporters on the scene, what don't we see up there. is there a sense of war they this isis animal, this thing we never thought about how big and dangerous and horrible it was came to most of our guts watching that picture the desert the other day, the execution of james foley. suddenly our blood 1 in this fight.

>> i think that's a great way to frame it, chris. it was a hit in the gut to this country, to this president. he was infuriated by the release of the video, by the brutal execution. it raised the specter in terms of what the separation is prepared to do. of course you heard the pentagon yesterday signal that air strikes in syria are not only not off the table but a possibility now. i've been speaking to senior administration officials about that. they stay president is weighing a range of options including that, looking at syria. there are no immediate plans to go that far but i think ruth is absolutely right. those types of discussions are going on behind the scenes here. the president traveling with ben rhodes, one of his top advisors as well as susan rice among others. we'll get a briefing chris later this afternoon from ben rhodes, from eric schultz and we'll be asking them those same questions. >> thank you so much kristen welker at martha's vineyard.

anyway, thank you, "washington post" editorial comments, i generally always agree with your opinion. >> so much more fun to disagree. >> >> that day will come. that is done for "andrea mitchell reports." tune into hard ball and we'll talk about the press conference coming out of the new england white house. we'll be back after this. ronan farrow daily is next. s to. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks.

all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion.

official u.s. policy says syria's president bashar al assad is a tyrant who needs to step down for the good of his own people. in other words, the perfect partner for america's highest-stakes military operation. the u.s. initially wanted to topple the government of bashar al assad. now it seems that the u.s. and bashar al assad are fighting on the same side. the big question is -- will the u.s. decide to expand its operations. if it did, it would be a major escalation. protests last night over the police shooting of michael brown were peaceful.

a sense of calm is starting to set in now. this is not about a celebrity divorce. this is about federal corruption charges against a virginia governor. 1:00 p.m. on the east coast, 10:00 a.m. on the west coast. let's drill down on today's mounting confrontation with isis. u.s. warplanes struck three new targets in iraq today, the latest in the mounting everyday assault on isis in that country. >> we are conducting operations inside iraq against this group in support of iraqis and kurdish forces. but we're not going to be the only tool in the tool box that can be k or should be used. >> those comments from the pentagon just moments ago. but the big question today is is syria next in this operation? chairman of the joint chiefs says it could be. >> can they be defeated without addressing that part of their organization which resides in syria? the answer is no. that will have to be addressed on both sides of what is